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Old 05-13-2019, 08:59 AM   #1
bugjam1999
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Default Holset and 2.4lh? Some early car turbo swap questions

Hi all,

A few questions about a swapping a turbo engine into a 1978 245, currently powered by a carb fed B21A.

Background Ė I turbo swapped my car (1988 240, originally k-jet) back in 2015. I swapped in 2.4lh and have stuck with the original 13c turbo with the boost turned up. Late last year a friend bought a 1978 245 and quickly moved from ĎI think Iíll keep it vaguely stockí to ĎIím definitely going to turbo ití. So far so good Ė he bought a B230FK, an M90, a Volvo top entry and exit intercooler and a 2.4lh loom from a late 240.

Then, entering stage left with a flourish Ė scope creep. Stripping the turbo down revealed that the wastegate seat was all but burnt away and the turbo was definitely not usable as is. During a search for a 13c/15G/16T something else popped up online Ė a Holset HX35 on a custom exhaust manifold with oil feed and drain lines and complete exhaust (guy breaking his project car). Messages were exchanged and the setup bought. Leading on from the turbo purchase an NPR intercooler, IPD turbo cam and adjustable pulley, a 531 head, and a 012 MAF were also bought.

For now, the 530 head with t cam is staying on the engine as the 531 will be worked on a bit before install. Weíve made a start and swapped in a walbro pump with a later sender and run a new feed line.

I understand the majority of how to turboswap a 240 having done it myself before, but there are a few questions about this swap that have exceeded the limits of my knowledge Ė comments welcomed on the points below:

1.) Speedo drive Ė the early dash is cable driven and thereís no interest in swapping to the later style dash. Iíve seen threads on taking an early instrument cluster apart and transplanting in a later speedo behind the original speedo face, then swapping in a later rear axle to provide the signal required which could be doneÖ but thatís a fair amount of work. Has anyone used a GPS to speedo drive emulator such as the one below to drive a speedo?

https://www.classicautoinnovations.com/classic

2.) 2.4lh and HolsetÖ I donít know, but my suspicion is that the collection of parts above and 2.4LH arenít going to play very nicely together. Does anyone have experience with 2.4lh and a similar engine spec? All guidance on the management side of things gratefully received Ė the guy who had this turbo before had a megasquirt setup, but he sold that separately.

3.) Related to the point above, the 012 MAF is far smaller than the inlet for the turbo Ė Iíve seen threads with people making their own 3inch maf using the insides of a 016, could the insides of the 012 be used in a 4inch pipe as part of running the above engine using 2.4lh?

All comments gratefully received,

Cheers
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:56 AM   #2
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2/3. I ran my LH 2.4 car with a holset to a 12.01 @ 114mph 1/4 mile time. Custom exhaust and intake manifold, buy still with the AMM there. Get. A 4-3" coupler adapter and bam AMM sits in front of the turbo. Either way I would recommend if going for the ceiling on LH you get an ostrich and custom tune it. I was running 75lb injectors and e85 at the time and I still had a ton of overhead for fueling at 25psi of boost.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:01 PM   #3
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Great- thatís reassuring. My friend isnít keen on a whole new management system and associated cost if he can help it, having got a little carried away with the parts list above.

Easy enough to buy a connector that will connect the maf to the turbo, but will that pose a restriction to airflow as itís a far smaller diameter? Or am I overthinking it?

He also has a wasted spark setup.

Will definitely be investing in an ostrich- Iíve read through the thread on tuning 2.4 a few times.

Cheers
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:12 PM   #4
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Add me to the Holset runs fine on 2.4 crowd. Mine was a little laggy without having a proper tune but it did pretty well from 3k on up.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugjam1999 View Post
Great- thatís reassuring. My friend isnít keen on a whole new management system and associated cost if he can help it, having got a little carried away with the parts list above.

Easy enough to buy a connector that will connect the maf to the turbo, but will that pose a restriction to airflow as itís a far smaller diameter? Or am I overthinking it?

He also has a wasted spark setup.

Will definitely be investing in an ostrich- Iíve read through the thread on tuning 2.4 a few times.

Cheers
While it is a restriction it really is not that bad, if you still have the stock intake manifold that is just as bad.

If you need some guidance on tuning with the ostrich let me know and I can help out a bit.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:44 PM   #6
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Ok, all sounding good so far thank you.

Yes- original intake manifold, I think thatís quite far down the upgrade list.

Tuning advice- great! Thanks, weíll almost certainly be in touch about that when the time comes.

Next hurdle-

4. Any comment on a recirculating blow off valve? The manifold etc doesnít have anything currently- Iím not sure what the previous guy had set up. Perhaps something on a piece of intercooler pipework? Advice welcomed.

5. Adjustable fuel pressure regulator- necessary?

Cheers
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:49 PM   #7
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No need for an adjustable FPR.
Definitely want a bypass valve on there. I have had solid luck with a Forge 007 on mine, on the Holset and the Garrett on the car now.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:55 PM   #8
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Ok thanks- weíll see about where to weld a recirculating valve in, then take a deep breath and get on with the swap...
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:39 AM   #9
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I've been reading through a ton of old turbo posts recently and it seems that the general consensus is that LH2.4 is good to around 300hp maybe higher with a good setup. So yeah LH is pretty damn robust! Consider getting a chip as an alternative to Ostrich, though I think Ostrich is the way to go!
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:39 AM   #10
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Oh itís already chipped, I neglected to mention that. Chipped ecu and ezk with a daughter board which is also chipped.

I think weíll be an ostrich as well...

I canít find anything on people using a cable drive emulator, think we might end up swapping the axle :o
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:05 AM   #11
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Ok- recirculating valve is the last piece of the puzzle... well, one of the last big pieces anyway.

I think Iíve seen a thread saying that 2.4lh will play nicely with a blow off valve, but my friend doesnít want to take that route and is keen on a recirculating valve. Any advice on what to buy and how to plumb it would be greatly appreciated- as we understand it the ideal location would be from just before the throttle body and to the pipe between the maf and the turbo, but that requires crossing the engine bay of course. Our assumption is the second best location is from just before the intercooler to the pipe between the maf and turbo, but please enlighten us if weíre off track.

Thanks for the suggestions of a forge 007 above- do they come in different sizes? If so, what size recirculating valve will we need?

Cheers
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:59 AM   #12
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Here's my setup.

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Old 07-03-2019, 12:23 PM   #13
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^nice one, thanks- thatís very helpful

Cheers
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:31 PM   #14
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Most diverter valves are based on the Porsche/VW style. You'll definitely want to use one with lh2.4. Some have been lucky without one, but many have not.

Forge makes a nice one, as does 034 Motorsport: https://store.034motorsport.com/034m...2-7t-4-2t.html
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:39 PM   #15
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The 007 is one size, just pick a color. It's the same size as the Porsche one Robert mentioned. I have had the same 007 on 2 different Holsets and my Garrett, been extremely happy with it. No fuss, tunable, and it just works.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:48 PM   #16
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#!1: A buddy of mine decided to redo his 1968 1800 and got a set of aftermarket gauges. His speedo is entirely GPS based. I know that it was an easier mod on a 1800 (all gauges just mount onto the face of the dash), but I figured that I'd mention that in case you wanted to consider a stand alone speedo either separate, or Frankensteined into your cluster.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...dometer-gauges
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:02 PM   #17
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Iím still on LH 2.4, with a Holset 11cm hx52, 16v forged conversion. Pulls without missing a beat up to 6800 with chips. Itíll do for now👍
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:49 PM   #18
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Hi all,

Thanks again for the help so far. We have made progress! It was sunny so we did this:




And then after a number of cups of tea and a bit of swearing, we got to this:



So far so good. After putting the slam panel and some other bodywork back on we experimented with fitting the NPR intercooler, but the merged header has moved the turbo too far forwards for that to work. So a mid entry/exit intercooler to fit in front of the radiator, under the slam panel has been purchased - the same as many many others I've seen on turbobricks.

We're still really short on space in front of the turbo though, given that we have to fit in a reducer from the turbo to the size of the MAF, but before the MAF there needs to be a tee for the recirculation valve, then the MAF, then the airfilter.... as well as pipework from the turbo outlet to the intercooler that connects to the recirculation valve before disappearing though the sheetmetal to the side of the radiator.

A request then - if anyone has any pics of a similar arrangement, they'd be much appreciated for a bit of inspiration. We're ditching the massive windscreen washer reservoir and putting a smaller one on the other side of the engine bay, and we've got a coolant expansion tank from a 740 turbo which is much smaller so that'll free up a bit of space to help.

All comments, pics etc. appreciated.

Cheers

A couple more general shots - note the maf is sitting loosely on the merged header in the second pic, ie where the turbo should be.


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Old 09-30-2019, 08:56 PM   #19
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To use the cable speedo with LH2.4, see this thread for what I did: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=342812

Needs some soldering skills, a cable speedo with the cruise control pickup, and the PCB from a 86+ non-abs electronic speedo, but works fine for me and was much easier than swapping differential and hacking a later speedo into the cable speedo cluster.
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:21 PM   #20
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That’s a great plan, like the idea, however the swap includes an M90 so no speedo drive..... it’s looking like a later rear axle swop with speedo sensor and a later speedo massaged into the cluster.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Thatís a great plan, like the idea, however the swap includes an M90 so no speedo drive..... itís looking like a later rear axle swop with speedo sensor and a later speedo massaged into the cluster.
If you want it to be nice, you could buy a conversion kit from me: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=351431

Im currently upgrading the gauge face design with embossing near the cutouts, so it will look even more proper. Changing to aluminum sheet aswell.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:36 PM   #22
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Hi Bugjam
I have a later 240 ('93) but am assuming they're not that different.
The washer bottle fits very nicely in the drivers side rear butt cheek. Just plumb in to the existing front to back pipework. I think I only needed to buy one or two fittings to link the pipes up, but I was ditching the headlamp washers.
Under the sheetmetal of the washer bottle's original position is an empty space. (between the front wheel inner guard and the bumper - easiest seen from underneath) I fitted a cylindrical Jetex air filter with a 3" exit & used a 3" holesaw to route the intake hose up & out of there. I even managed to find a piece of metal with ventilation holes (ex cooker filter cover!) to cover the bottom of the space where the filter is.
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petiww View Post
If you want it to be nice, you could buy a conversion kit from me: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=351431

Im currently upgrading the gauge face design with embossing near the cutouts, so it will look even more proper. Changing to aluminum sheet aswell.
Any MPH ones? If so can you PM me with a price and contacts?
Look nice!
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Any MPH ones? If so can you PM me with a price and contacts?
Look nice!
Yes, i can do MPH ones aswell, just need to design the gauge face. Price is the same, maybe the shipping is a bit cheaper to the UK.
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:38 PM   #25
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Looks good! Let me know when you’ve done MPH face, if you’re near/in Budapest I’m there occasionally for work?
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