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Old 09-18-2019, 10:14 PM   #1
90volvo
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Default E85 ????

Just did a +T on 90 Volvo 240. Running npr intercooler with 15g turbo 14lbs at the moment. 330cx injectors. Beat fuel I can get around here is 91 octane with ethanol in it. But I can get E85. I know itís higher octane which will help with the ping. Ignition system is still 2.4. Want to run more boost and possibly run a bigger turbo. What do I need to do to run E85. Thanks
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:20 AM   #2
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You can always splash in a few gallons but those injectors are not ideal for e85 and you will probably run lean. My suggestion is get a bigger turbo, get a ipd turbo cam, 3 inch maf, 75lb injectors, get some 2.4 chips and crank the boost up. Make sure you're fuel pump and wiring are upgraded and you have a good exhaust system and it will be reliably fun on a pure e85 diet
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:30 AM   #3
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You can always splash in a few gallons but those injectors are not ideal for e85 and you will probably run lean. My suggestion is get a bigger turbo, get a ipd turbo cam, 3 inch maf, 75lb injectors, get some 2.4 chips and crank the boost up. Make sure you're fuel pump and wiring are upgraded and you have a good exhaust system and it will be reliably fun on a pure e85 diet
Now I have put roughly 3 gallons of e85 in a tank of 93 on my +t 240, but I have some concerns. Yes e85 is higher octane but less energy per volume than gasoline. So do those 3 gallons actually up the octane rating or do they end up making the car actually run lean? Genuine question because it seems that my +t car is pretty limited to stock-9psi before it wants to knock. Iíd like to take things to the next level.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:31 AM   #4
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I won't use pump E85 because it is not consistent and usually has a lot of water in it.

If you want to run real E85 I have burned many drums full of this stuff over the last few years bracket racing.
https://www.thunderboltracingfuel.com/
No water in it and it has been dead on consistent. We don't even touch the motor anymore it just goes round after round.
I'd guess well over 200 passes this year without a single jet change!

I have a B230FT running pump gas and 20# boost with no detonation problems.
So if you are detonating at 9# something is wrong.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:49 AM   #5
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I wonder if there is a quick and easy way to check water content? I’ve been adding both octane booster; it works well. If e85 is that bad out of the pump, I don’t want to create another problem.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:07 AM   #6
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I think it depends on the station you buy it from - how quickly they're rturning over the contents of their E85 tanks. If they're barely selling any - and the fuel sits for a long period of time, I guess it's possible it might absorb some more water (although I don't think the tanks have open ventilation?).

I started running my wagon as 'dual fuel' many years ago - two sets of fuel/spark/boost maps in my MS1, with a dash switch. I'd just run it really low on one fuel, tank up on the other, and flip the switch. And I then embarked on a never ending task of trying to get the E85 tune in shape. And it always felt like a moving target. Sometimes running *awesome*, sometimes being a bit tempermental.

Later on, when I got an MS3X computer, I added a flex fuel sensor and used true flex fuel setups (interpolates between gas and E85 tunes based on current fuel %). And saw why I'd been having some issue trying to tune for 'E85' - turns out it is not '85% ethanol', it's *UP TO* 85% ethanol. They could put less ethanol in it. Like, considerably less. And while I never saw it, I've heard that occasionally you'll get normal E10 pump regular out of an E85 pump. I think the ranges I saw from various E85 pumps was something like 40% up to close to 85% (of course, I never got some 'reference' fuel to properly calibrate my sensor).

So it can be a bit iffy trying to tune on pump E85 without a sensor to tell you how much corn there is in the fuel. If you get a nice long string of high % tanks, tune it up nicely to suit that, then run it hard with a weak batch of E40 or E10, you might blow something up. Hell, I blew up my original 8V motor back in the day because I'd tuned it to the pointy end of rational on good 93 octane gas from one station, tanked up at a different station on the way to the dragstrip, red misted through a bit of pinging on that crappy '93' octane gas, and chucked a rod a few days later.

So on one hand you could just toss in some larger injectors (roughly 25% more flow) and start pumping E85 into it, and call it a day. And it would probably work pretty well. But if you're planning on cranking up the boost to take advantage of that 110 octane, you're probably better off teaming it up with something like Megasquirt and a fuel sensor, that way it can actually handle all the possible mixtures between E10 and E85.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:10 AM   #7
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I won't use pump E85 because it is not consistent and usually has a lot of water in it.

If you want to run real E85 I have burned many drums full of this stuff over the last few years bracket racing.
https://www.thunderboltracingfuel.com/
No water in it and it has been dead on consistent. We don't even touch the motor anymore it just goes round after round.
I'd guess well over 200 passes this year without a single jet change!

I have a B230FT running pump gas and 20# boost with no detonation problems.
So if you are detonating at 9# something is wrong.
It’s on a +t so I have a bit higher compression. I’ve also read of other having pinging at low boost like me but it’s very annoying. I’d like to reliably run 12-14psi. I’ll be getting the injectors cleaned and flow matched later on this year, and then sticking to a GOOD 93 octane. Ever since I’ve switched to only Mobil 93, the engine seems much happier.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:12 AM   #8
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Itís on a +t so I have a bit higher compression. Iíve also read of other having pinging at low boost like me but itís very annoying. Iíd like to reliably run 12-14psi. Iíll be getting the injectors cleaned and flow matched later on this year, and then sticking to a GOOD 93 octane. Ever since Iíve switched to only Mobil 93, the engine seems much happier.
It was Motomart 93 octane that got me. Long time ago, though.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:18 AM   #9
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@John with something like bone stock lh2.4 turbo computers, can one actually reliably get away with changing NOTHING other than injector size and run E85? I’m to the point where I’m temporarily satisfied with the modest 180hp, *as long* as I can beat it up all day without it pinging when heat soaked. That’s kind of why I don’t drive the car. It would surely benefit from a standalone system and a proper dyno tune because the stock LH maps aren’t as safe as people say IMO. Sure the AFRs are pig rich but I guess that’s not enough.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:23 AM   #10
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With a stock ignition computer you wouldn't ge the ignition advance you'd really need to take full advantage, but it would be pretty much knock-proof. To a fault, really.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:38 AM   #11
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With a stock ignition computer you wouldn't ge the ignition advance you'd really need to take full advantage, but it would be pretty much knock-proof. To a fault, really.
Are there any downside besides 13mpgs?

Guess I need to hop on t injector calculator.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:50 AM   #12
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Only the variable ethanol content. When I got it at my 'local' pump it was fairly consistent, the lower content tankfuls I got were out and about at different stations. Other than that I had no issues with it.

As for it going bad after sitting around - I had a half tankful of it sitting in the wagon while it was apart for the better part of two years, and the motor fired up just fine on it, and I drove it around for a bit on that stuff until it was low, then topped up with 93 octane.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:58 PM   #13
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Around here there is just one place that sell it. MFA and dont think alot of people are running it. I thought about getting a simple tester on amazon and see how it test out. The premium fuel here is terrible even out stock 2012 honda rattles bad on premium. Ive been running 12 lbs with rattle so Ive been dumping Vp octane booster in it and it clears right up. But its cost 20 buck every fill up. If someone figure size of injectors let me know. I think someone recommended 550s.? I have some chips coming soon. Thanks for the info. Kinda lets me know what I would be walking into.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Rick View Post
I won't use pump E85 because it is not consistent and usually has a lot of water in it.

If you want to run real E85 I have burned many drums full of this stuff over the last few years bracket racing.
https://www.thunderboltracingfuel.com/
No water in it and it has been dead on consistent. We don't even touch the motor anymore it just goes round after round.
I'd guess well over 200 passes this year without a single jet change!

I have a B230FT running pump gas and 20# boost with no detonation problems.
So if you are detonating at 9# something is wrong.
man, even when it's in a barrel we can't get e85 on the east coast! What are they charging for a 55gal.?
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:30 AM   #15
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Hey JohnMc, what kind a sensor you are using to measure fuel/alcohol-ratio?
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:56 AM   #16
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I can't find the part number, but it's a GM/AC Delco sensor, looks about like this: https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-13577.../dp/B01GQR9C5O

Plumbed into the return line so it doesn't see pressure.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:04 PM   #17
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yep those are the ones I've used on all my junk
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Old 09-20-2019, 02:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iHateVolvoPeople View Post
Are there any downside besides 13mpgs?

Guess I need to hop on t injector calculator.
I run my 1995 945T on e85 (in PHX AZ it tests out to e54 at the stations I go to) and this is my daily.

I run 20psi on a 19t and have for the last year+ without any issues. Mpg wise in summer I can get as low as 16.5mpg and as high as 20mpg with the AC on depending on how much time I sit idling with the wife and kids. Winter time mpg is 18-22mpg, I am sure it would be better but I like full boost when then weather is nice. This is in a 3400lb wagon without any people in it. I am running 60lb injectors with a 3" AMM on LH and it is a rock star.

My 744T that runs on the same fuel typically sees 14-17mpg year round (no ac) depending on how I drive it. Being the "race car" it sees a lot of 27psi pulls and has a heavy 200r4 behind the engine sucking power and mpg. This car is 3050lb without me.

Ethanol typically drops your mpg 1-2 depending on driving style and boost. With my newest add of an ebc over mbc in my 945t my mpg actually went up the last tank as now I can set the boost to 9psi and not use nearly as much fuel as I used to running 19/20psi every time I went to Accel.


Otherwise e85 runs just fine on LH, reset ECU right after you fill a nearly empty tank and just drive. Far from ideal but it works just fine without major changes. Depends on mods and air flow requirements you might want to run larger injectors just to be safe. If you are doing this one would expect you have a wideband. And there are those that offer chips that can also help with the fueling.

Myself o have personally been running LH cars on E85/Flexfuel for over 10years now without any issues besides a drop in MPG. Doing so has allowed me to run 26psi in 115+deg Summers and as cold as 30deg winters.
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:28 PM   #19
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:33 PM   #20
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550cc injectors with stock AMM, or 750cc with 3 inch amm for E85.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:22 PM   #21
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THanks man. Ordering a test kit its cheap off of amazon. Then gonna talk with mfa about getting tank set at my house. See if I can get some numbers out of the salemans first.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Stiggy Pop View Post
man, even when it's in a barrel we can't get e85 on the east coast! What are they charging for a 55gal.?
I'm paying about half what race fuel costs or better (near Pump suPremium prices).
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:32 PM   #23
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51 to 83% ethanol, no mention of water content....

15% old gas and the rest is water

Last edited by Dirty Rick; 10-07-2019 at 06:57 PM..
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:38 PM   #24
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51 to 83% ethanol, no mention of water content....

15% old gas and the rest is water

This station typically tests out to e54, other stations test out at e80.

Either way I have been using this station for 10 years without any issues so it cannot be that bad. Nevermind that I have also had this fuel sitting in my tank for over 18months and the car started and ran just fine with it also.

I am sure if I asked them they could provide with the data sheets for each fill.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:27 AM   #25
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our stations usually don't have a lot of water in the e85. the ethanol content does varry a bit, 65 to 85% (but, it's also hard to get a full idea since you've always got a couple gallons of pump floating around in the tank if you constantly switch)

it's a good idea to test the fuel periodically, but if you're not running it on the ragged edge (and you probably shouldn't with pump e85) AND you don't really have a means to adjust with the varrying content (as is the case with lh 2.4), it's not a big deal to constantly monitor it.. cause you can't really do anything about it either way.

what we've done with good results is put a couple gallons of e85 in with a tank of 93, you can get most of the benefits without vastly skewing the fuel system (hell I did it in my R, it's completely stock. no issues. mpg dropped a little bit but the car ran smoother and more consistent under load). I'd probably try that before I jumped off the deep end and swapped to huge injectors and bigger mafs, etc.
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