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Old 09-26-2019, 09:41 PM   #1
thelostartof
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Default 500whp Transmission options?

Ok so lets just say that as I am making more power I am starting to rethink my tranmission.

Currently power is around 400+bhp at the engine and as I am working on a few more minor upgrade (GT3582R and new exhaust header) I plan on the car making a bit more power in the future. In doing so I am starting to tire of my 200R4 in the car. Besides the entire annoyance of the kickdown cable and the NIW intake manifold, Nevermind the way that the transmission shifts under light throttle input (boost runs away) I am just not happy with it anymore.

While I love the smoothness of the autotrans when under full load I just have to many little issues with it (the entire GM transmissions loving to leak fluid). I am looking for the next options for these kind of power levels.

While I do happen to have a CD009 adapter setup here (this is my number 1 option) as I know it will hold the power and manually shifting that kind of power just sounds fun.

I know I could go with say a built Th400 to ditch the kickdown I feel like I wouldn't enjoy the car as much as I love the ratios's (4th gear) on the 200r4 as the car is still a daily driver in winter so I enjoy being able to use it on the highway.

So saying that I would think that my next options if I wanted to stay Auto would be a 4l60e (not know for holding HP) or a 4l80e (5spd auto might be nice) these are computer controlled tranmissions and add an extra layer of effort. The car does have a MS II setup so if there are options to control one of these tranmissions with MS then I would be interested to hear.

So there is my rant for today, what other tranmission options do I have for this kind of power level while still being able to enjoy the car on the higway? CD009 or maybe a 4l80e?
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:48 PM   #2
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700R4 can take it, the 500hp Grand National I posted in OT has been running that for years. The shop car (Twin turbo Grand National) ran a bunch of flat 10s on 200R4 with a noob driver, and it was a daily driver.
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:50 PM   #3
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I'd say CD009 with a 3.31 final drive. That's what I'm going for but I'm also swapping a B6284t thereso it's a little different than your setup.
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 2turbotoys View Post
700R4 can take it, the 500hp Grand National I posted in OT has been running that for years. The shop car (Twin turbo Grand National) ran a bunch of flat 10s on 200R4 with a noob driver, and it was a daily driver.
Does the 700r4 have good options for ditching the TV cable? I need to talk to a local trans builder here to see if there is a good option for losing it on my current setup. My current trans also has a manual trans brake. While great for drag racing is also a huge problem as my 1-2 shift is around 5500rpm. Stupid v6turbo.
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:17 AM   #5
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This would control a 60e/80e and allow you to ditch the kickdown cable. No clue how well it works though.

https://www.efisource.com/wp/shop/4l...-control-unit/
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:34 AM   #6
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I believe to loose the TV cable on a 200r4 or 700r4 you have to install a full manual valve body
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:28 AM   #7
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There are full-manual kits for the 4l60/4l80, IIRC. No computer required. This one is DIY.

https://atracom.blob.core.windows.ne.../2015_3_32.pdf

A basic 'Poi-shift' box could also control the transmission, IMO. It would be full manual then, but you'd need a way to switch the gears.
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:49 AM   #8
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80e with an extra microsquirt box to control the trans linked to the main ecu via can.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:03 PM   #9
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What about a TKO600? They seem like they will take the abuse, but don't like RPM past 6k...
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RvolvoR View Post
4L80e with an extra microsquirt box to control the trans linked to the main ecu via can.
This would be my first option if the trans is well supported.
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:00 AM   #11
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Do a built 4L60E with a stand alone controller. The 4L60 is just a 700R4 with no tv and electronically shifted. A 4L80 is always a better option and can take around 800 ft/lb stock but its alot of transmission to put behind a 4 cylinder.

The 80E is simply a TH400 with overdrive, has a really tall first gear and only came in 3/4-1 ton trucks and is very heavy. The 60E has a much more performance oriented gear spread and came in everything from vettes to Holdens etc. But anything much over 6-700hp the 80E makes more sense.
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:56 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 242Bleek View Post
Do a built 4L60E with a stand alone controller. The 4L60 is just a 700R4 with no tv and electronically shifted. A 4L80 is always a better option and can take around 800 ft/lb stock but its alot of transmission to put behind a 4 cylinder.

The 80E is simply a TH400 with overdrive, has a really tall first gear and only came in 3/4-1 ton trucks and is very heavy. The 60E has a much more performance oriented gear spread and came in everything from vettes to Holdens etc. But anything much over 6-700hp the 80E makes more sense.
Really anything over 400hp and the 80e is the more practical option. Taking into consideration the cost of building the 60e to take 500hp it’s just not worth it unless you have major size constraints, but using a BFH you can definitely get a 80e to fir. Stock 60e’s regularly blow up in suburbans and Tahoe’s behind sub 300 horse 4.8s and 5.3s. Whereas a stock 80e will hold at least 600 and probably closer to 800, you can also grab a pull out 80e for $500 and be good to go. Also it being a lot of trans behind a 4 cylinder doesn’t mean much. 500hp is 500hp.
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Old 09-28-2019, 11:07 AM   #13
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I run the EFI source pnp microsquirt kit for the 4l80. 4 wires to hook up (power, ground, and 2 CAN lines). Aside from setting the tire size in the TCU, I haven’t touched it in 3 years. About as easy as it gets for a tcu controlled transmission.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Really anything over 400hp and the 80e is the more practical option. Taking into consideration the cost of building the 60e to take 500hp it’s just not worth it unless you have major size constraints, but using a BFH you can definitely get a 80e to fir. Stock 60e’s regularly blow up in suburbans and Tahoe’s behind sub 300 horse 4.8s and 5.3s. Whereas a stock 80e will hold at least 600 and probably closer to 800, you can also grab a pull out 80e for $500 and be good to go. Also it being a lot of trans behind a 4 cylinder doesn’t mean much. 500hp is 500hp.
I would agree with you with the 80E being more practical. But unless you are doing a 700-1000+ build it seems like a ton of weight and parasitic loss for a 4 cyl thats gutless off boost. As for the 60E Tahoes and Suburbans are some of the most abused and poorly maintained vehicles on the road, they are 5-7000 lbs, hooked to torquey v8's and people always tow well beyond their rated capabilities with them. They have strong reliability in vettes, smaller trucks and even the AWD 400hp TBSS. I think they are a bit under rated for full size trucks.

I think in a Volvo thats what 3500 lbs? With a 4 cyl that has a progressive torque curve you would be surprised how well a stock 60E or 70E would do in that application. The V8's are brutal on them.
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:14 PM   #15
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I would agree with you with the 80E being more practical. But unless you are doing a 700-1000+ build it seems like a ton of weight and parasitic loss for a 4 cyl thats gutless off boost. As for the 60E Tahoes and Suburbans are some of the most abused and poorly maintained vehicles on the road, they are 5-7000 lbs, hooked to torquey v8's and people always tow well beyond their rated capabilities with them. They have strong reliability in vettes, smaller trucks and even the AWD 400hp TBSS. I think they are a bit under rated for full size trucks.

I think in a Volvo thats what 3500 lbs? With a 4 cyl that has a progressive torque curve you would be surprised how well a stock 60E or 70E would do in that application. The V8's are brutal on them.
You are correct on the torque curve and abuse the Tahoe’s and suburbans take(I didn’t think about that), also a lot of the times those are blown in 4wd applications which just adds more stress to the trans. So I guess it does all come down to cost effectiveness and if he ever plans on going the native Swede route and making 700hp
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 242Bleek View Post
I would agree with you with the 80E being more practical. But unless you are doing a 700-1000+ build it seems like a ton of weight and parasitic loss for a 4 cyl thats gutless off boost. As for the 60E Tahoes and Suburbans are some of the most abused and poorly maintained vehicles on the road, they are 5-7000 lbs, hooked to torquey v8's and people always tow well beyond their rated capabilities with them. They have strong reliability in vettes, smaller trucks and even the AWD 400hp TBSS. I think they are a bit under rated for full size trucks.

I think in a Volvo thats what 3500 lbs? With a 4 cyl that has a progressive torque curve you would be surprised how well a stock 60E or 70E would do in that application. The V8's are brutal on them.
I agree with you. An 80E is overkill and a huge parasitic loss. I've had 4L60Es in several Camaros and they hold up well. Put a shift kit in the trans so it doesn't slip so much when shifting and you should be fine.
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Old 09-28-2019, 03:06 PM   #17
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I run the EFI source pnp microsquirt kit for the 4l80. 4 wires to hook up (power, ground, and 2 CAN lines). Aside from setting the tire size in the TCU, I haven’t touched it in 3 years. About as easy as it gets for a tcu controlled transmission.
I second this, my micro controlled 80e has been great. I think the micro kit is like 450 bucks. Really hard to beat. If youre still going to drag race it, no reason to make it slower and swap in a stick
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Old 09-28-2019, 08:57 PM   #18
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Really anything over 400hp and the 80e is the more practical option. Taking into consideration the cost of building the 60e to take 500hp it’s just not worth it unless you have major size constraints, but using a BFH you can definitely get a 80e to fir. Stock 60e’s regularly blow up in suburbans and Tahoe’s behind sub 300 horse 4.8s and 5.3s. Whereas a stock 80e will hold at least 600 and probably closer to 800, you can also grab a pull out 80e for $500 and be good to go. Also it being a lot of trans behind a 4 cylinder doesn’t mean much. 500hp is 500hp.
I completely disagree with this. I built my 4l60e to hold some series power. Was rather easy. I have about 4-5k miles on the rebuild with shift kit and various Sonnax upgrade parts. I maybe have $400-500 in the whole rebuilt. You can build a 4l60e to handle over 1000tq.
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:51 PM   #19
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I completely disagree with this. I built my 4l60e to hold some series power. Was rather easy. I have about 4-5k miles on the rebuild with shift kit and various Sonnax upgrade parts. I maybe have $400-500 in the whole rebuilt. You can build a 4l60e to handle over 1000tq.
yeah, actually put power to it and and it will still blow up...building a 4l60e is like owning a boat, it just keeps costing you money until you get rid of it.
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Old 09-29-2019, 12:46 PM   #20
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yeah, actually put power to it and and it will still blow up...building a 4l60e is like owning a boat, it just keeps costing you money until you get rid of it.
Coming from some one with no real long term experience with one in his car, I don't believe that statement one bit.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:04 AM   #21
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Got 10 bucks on that 60e ****ting the bed within 6 months of the first drive with the blower
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:18 AM   #22
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I mean how much bigger does everyone think a 4L80E is? He's already got a GM auto trans in there, it's really not much bigger.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:46 AM   #23
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my 2 cents:

my 700r4 had 250k on it before I put a shift kit, boost valve and corvette servo in it, have put 25+psi from a t04e and a 75 shot on it for a while now and it still shifts perfect. Just took it to the track again this last saturday and its still going strong.

my "built" 60e behind a completely stock 4.8 with twin 52s has been trying to give me 4 neutrals since day 1 and on the gate it probably doesn't make much more power than my redblock
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:55 PM   #24
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Coming from some one with no real long term experience with one in his car, I don't believe that statement one bit.
No, you’re right. I have experience with more than just one and in lots of other peoples cars. The 60e is not worth messing with.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:00 PM   #25
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There are a lot of 4l60 Sloppy Mechanics memes.
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