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Old 12-31-2018, 12:50 PM   #1
Dirty Rick
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Default Share timing tables?

Boost limited to 250kpa

B230 2valve Turbo cam Garrett 3071 3" exhaust in a 84 760 Auto

I inherited this table, looking to improve it.
I think it is very conservative and I am concerned about exhaust temps.
I don't want to lean on it too hard as it gets hammered.

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Old 12-31-2018, 12:52 PM   #2
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on E in the blue 242, I'm looking at 17-18 degrees, 3076. On pump I have that pulled back to 13-14 (that's a projection, not a tuned final value)
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:57 PM   #3
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I forgot to list fuel type, pump premium.

Looks like exhaust temps are high due to coloring of turbo housing and hardware. No EGT.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:04 PM   #4
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yea on pump 93 I have the map set to drop to 13-14 degrees. realistically that can probably come up one degree or so, but it would be hardly way under advanced at 14 imo.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:42 PM   #5
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This one is dropping 22° so I guess I need to spend some time on it. That's more than the 1° per # rule.
How worried should I be about EGT's?
Busted the old manifold and turbine housing up pretty bad.
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:55 PM   #6
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not sure, never really left one extremely under advanced long enough to find out. on the blue car, from ~100kpa to 250 kpa it's dropping about 17 on e85. I'd say 20 on pump might be alright. I'll see if I can dig up a couple logs from it's pre-e85 dyno sessions to see where I'd arrived at, that's been a while on this car.

it's fairly (I think, at least) conservatively tuned, as it's not my own personal car. threw down ~330whp at around 270kpa and from what I recall 270whp at 200-210ish psi on pump.
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:52 PM   #7
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The stock LH2.4 maps are here, but I don't know what sort of conversion factor is needed to translate from LH2.4 "Load" to MAP.
http://ipdown.net/wiki/index.php/EZK...gnition_maps_2 or
https://ipdown.net/wiki/index.php?ti...gnition_maps_2

Last edited by bobxyz; 08-01-2020 at 12:32 PM.. Reason: fixed? link
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:02 PM   #8
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Thanks for both.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:17 PM   #9
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This is my tune done quick for 2,3 8v, D cam, 20T@1,7bar, 3 inch DP, 531head with bigger valves, inj 440cm3.
It still needs some tune-up and cam is at 0 degrees - havent tested it advanced or retarted.

No knocks. This 744 is faster then 295HP 945 with full interior.

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Old 01-03-2019, 06:10 PM   #10
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Thanks.

Im thinking of reducing the boost limit and raising the spark advance.
I think that it will lower the exhaust temps, may make more power, and somewhat improve mileage.

Any thoughts?
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:16 PM   #11
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that's normally how that works if you think you've reached or exceeded the tipping point of what a fuel is reasonably capable of supporting.

I found that on my evo back in the day, I *could* run 32-33psi with the 35r, but it was *faster* at around 27, on pump 93. (I know, apples to oranges, but the idea carries). I had it tuned out to where it would on average tag up no more than about 2-3 knock counts in both cases.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:56 PM   #12
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Have you had success with a knock sensor?
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:20 AM   #13
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No not really, at least not on e85. I'd look for peaks on pump gas if that's all I had to go on, after establishing some kind of baseline for engine noise.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:45 PM   #14
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Knocksense or the GM setup?

I removed a GM setup from the car (when I recently rewired and dumped the relay box) it was from the 2.1.0p days.
I deemed the GM knock system experimental.
I just checked the first MSQ I have for that car from 2015 knocksensor was disabled then.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:26 AM   #15
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any of it really. It's one of those things, to know it's working you just about have to induce knock at the various points, and while that does occasionally happen, I really have a hard time making myself do that lol
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:01 PM   #16
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Didn't really put any time into it, but it did the job.



Edit: stock b21et 7.5:1 bottom end, stock 530 (stiffer springs only), v-cam straight up, b21e intake, stock b230f tb, 90+ with hy35, 3" exhaust with only one muffler. Large generic 3" ebaycooler. 73C thermostat. 98ron gas.

Car often visited the 320 line, redline at 7200(i know, table should have been modified)

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Old 01-07-2019, 08:46 PM   #17
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no cruise "vacuum advance" bump?

Your table makes mine look verrrrry conservative.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:35 AM   #18
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No cruise control on this car. The reason yours look very conservative is probably down to things like compression ratio.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:25 AM   #19
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Yes eabras, guys please add compression ratio data and other relevant parameters when you post a map. Otherwise what are we comparing?
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eabras View Post
No cruise control on this car.
Not "cruise control". ~0 PSI / ATM / bar (gauge pressure)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eabras View Post
The reason yours look very conservative is probably down to things like compression ratio.
Correct but it could also be conservative if he doesn't think about fuel economy or have concern for a catalyst
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjeng View Post
Yes eabras, guys please add compression ratio data and other relevant parameters when you post a map. Otherwise what are we comparing?
well I mean you have to trust that timing is verified and stays consistent through the rpm range for a given car as well. Any number of things can affect that and "not be seen"... improper edge triggering, wrong dwell, unverified TDC angle. Frame of reference and shape are about all you can really derive from someone else's timing map unless it's an identical setup (and even then, some of the above still apply).

I mean, I could post the pump gas timing map for the last 16vT I tuned (or, tried to :-/ ), and yall wouldn't understand it at all-hell I don't even understand it.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxman51 View Post
I mean, I could post the pump gas timing map for the last 16vT I tuned (or, tried to :-/ ), and yall wouldn't understand it at all-hell I don't even understand it.
I'd be interested in that. The high compression NA 16v timing table was basically 10deg advance from idle to 8k rpm. It didn't like much advance at all. I think the total timing change on the driveable area of the map was 35deg.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:07 PM   #23
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it was wrong, the engine wasn't a high compression engine and it wasn't running a lot of boost. -8 degrees at like 12psi or something
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:24 PM   #24
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Is that 8deg advance or retarded? The "-" is throwing me off...
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:50 PM   #25
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8 ATDC, so 8 retarded.
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