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B230f+t vs LS swap

Ceej said:
Cool that?s what I had read as well. Also, it?s my understanding that going the 16v route is pointless unless you plan on building the block because an 8v will do the same job up until the same power level as the 16v. Is that true?
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What?



Keeping the same turbo and manifold, my car puts down more power with half the boost after the 16v swap, over a wider powerband. Does that make sense?


JohnMc said:
I'm not quite understanding what your last sentence means, but a 16V head flows a lot more air than an 8V. And that makes more HP. You *can* make power on an 8V head, but you have to put a lot of money into head work and cams, and throw more boost at it.

I do think the use case of a 16V swap is getting a bit pinched, however, between BIG turbo 8V builds on one end and LS/2JZ swaps on the other. It's easier in many respects than a complete motor swap since the bottom end is still stock. But a turbo 16V, especially in a 240, needs a lot of custom parts to make it find and work.
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Packaging is a bit challenging with creature comforts yes.
 
As a super rough HP/$ range, I'd say the best bet is:
stock - 300 HP - 8V
300 - 400 HP - 16V
400+ HP - something else
 
JohnMc said:
I'm not quite understanding what your last sentence means, but a 16V head flows a lot more air than an 8V. And that makes more HP. You *can* make power on an 8V head, but you have to put a lot of money into head work and cams, and throw more boost at it.

I do think the use case of a 16V swap is getting a bit pinched, however, between BIG turbo 8V builds on one end and LS/2JZ swaps on the other. It's easier in many respects than a complete motor swap since the bottom end is still stock. But a turbo 16V, especially in a 240, needs a lot of custom parts to make it find and work.
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Sorry, sometimes I don?t explain my thoughts well. What I meant to say was, on a stock block it doesn?t matter if I run an 8v or a 16v because the block is the limiting factor? I would just have an easier time reaching the power limit with a 16v because it flows better, rather than running a bigger turbo to compensate for the 8v poor flow.
 
Dicktater said:
Op says it's a daily driver, I love making mediocre power with a 4 banger with my DD, why the magic number of 300?

250 to the rear wheel is much fun without the expense or the headaches to reach a number you pulled out of your ass. If it's your DD dependability is your first goal power level takes a back seat.

Yeah I know, I sound like Redwood Chair aka common sense.
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I’ve owned cars with 250-300hp. That amount of power in a 3200lb car is alright. It’s fast enough to not feel like a turd but slow enough to be uninspiring. I want something that’s capable of 12 second range quarters or at least low 13’s on a bad day. Around 300whp in one of these cars should be about what I’m looking for and give it a 10 to 1 hp to weight ratio.

And yes it’s a DD but I gotta have some fun with it. I have other vehicles for back up if she ****s the bed lol
 
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JohnMc said:
even with a nice fast spooling turbo (BW EFR) you were still dealing with that amount of HP until you'd kept the pedal down for that bit of lag, and then beast mode for a few seconds until you shifted. Not entirely on/off, but sort of.
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Throttle response. When I ask a machine for something, I want it now, not when the machine finally gets around to it. Admittedly, my knowledge of turbos is from the 90s -- I hear they've gotten better, but my 240 intercooled was a 2-second wait. My girlfriend's nearly new Dodge Daytona Shelby was almost as leisurely to wake up, but when it finally did, wow! Not much could touch her.

The little 5.0 back in the day was exhilarating. Sure, you snicker now, when 400 HP is easy to find off the showroom floor, but the 225HP Mustang pretty much recreated the hot rod mentality after more than a decade of wimpy cars. (Not all, but most.) How wonderful that we could enjoy that without decimating our environment like with the 1960s Hemis and so on.

2turbotoys said:
Drivability is such a relative thing. What you like may not be what I like.
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Exactly. I don't doubt that turbo horsepower could exceed naturally aspirated ratings by several hundred HP depending on how you build it. But for me, romping on a V8 at just about any RPM is pure joy.
 
Having ridden in both now, LS all the way. I was getting all the parts for a 16v turbo swap and realized I would be in it much more money and have a car that might be as fast pushed to the extreme but I can now buy most of my mechanical parts locally if I need to as an LS car and it was less expensive hp to hp.
 
Things to consider... A 300whp B230 is on borrowed time, and will be at 20ish PSI boost to make that power. A 300whp LSx is essentially stock and will run that way for years with normal maintenance.
 
If the B230 is properly built, I wouldn't agree that is on borrowed time, but I get your point. It will be more stressed.

After my LS build is done, I will probably start on my other 242, which will be a redblock turbo. Why decide? Have both :-P
 
2turbotoys said:
If the B230 is properly built, I wouldn't agree that is on borrowed time, but I get your point. It will be more stressed.

After my LS build is done, I will probably start on my other 242, which will be a redblock turbo. Why decide? Have both :-P
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Oh how nice that would be. You must not have a wife holding the purse strings :lol:
 
You’re a lucky man! My wife has limited me to my 78 Bronco and my 245, life is tough.
 
I just picked up my 530 head and B23 block from the machine shop, ported the exhaust, opened up around the intake valves, installed oversize valves from the group buy, new keepers, recycled RSI valve springs set the lash with my IPD turbo cam, decked and honed the block, installed new intermediate shaft bearings, new freeze plugs.
$790
Oversize valves
$368
NOS Mahle B23ET pistons
NOS RSI h-beam rods
$550
Crank scraper
$119
Bearings, Gates Kevlar t belt, Chinese T3/T4, gaskets, Volvo flame trap, etc etc
Probably another $500
Stuff to run 3/8" fuel line to eBay fuel rail,FPR fuel filter etc etc
$300
It's just bleeding money but I think it's down to a trickle, $8.89 for a can of red engine paint this afternoon.

Pics to come
 
stevE85 said:
Things to consider... A 300whp B230 is on borrowed time, and will be at 20ish PSI boost to make that power. A 300whp LSx is essentially stock and will run that way for years with normal maintenance.
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a 300whp b230 isn't on borrowed time.

I ran mine very hard and at more boost than that for years and it only blew up because of my own negligence and not caring.
 
Also, now that johnmc mentioned it....there is a 3rd contender. You can get a 1jz vvti engine/trans takeout for pretty cheap nowadays...
 
RvolvoR said:
a 300whp b230 isn't on borrowed time.

I ran mine very hard and at more boost than that for years and it only blew up because of my own negligence and not caring.
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That?s a bummer. What were you running for engine management?
 
Ceej said:
That?s a bummer. What were you running for engine management?
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an oldschool MS1 box, distributor, ID1000 injectors, holset, header, 3" exhaust, ebay intercooler, decent sized cam....that's the short of the build to make 350whp on 19-20 psi on ehtanol.
 
stevE85 said:
Things to consider... A 300whp B230 is on borrowed time, and will be at 20ish PSI boost to make that power. A 300whp LSx is essentially stock and will run that way for years with normal maintenance.
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And if you feel like living on borrowed time, how much HP does an LS make on 20 psi? :oogle:
 
RvolvoR said:
Also, now that johnmc mentioned it....there is a 3rd contender. You can get a 1jz vvti engine/trans takeout for pretty cheap nowadays...
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I've ridden in Sam's red 2JZ turbo wagon. That thing SCOOTS. And there's something super sweet about the sound of an inline 6.
 
Hell ya, that is an awesome motor. And really not as expensive as you would think. It's about half of what I have into my L33.
 
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