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Old 04-23-2014, 10:22 AM   #1
TempleUWS6
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Default Swap Bars: Double vs. IPD

So what kind of experience have you guys had with doing double sways vs. the IPD 25mm ones?

I might just try the doubles first. I remember seeing a good write up about doing it before, but now I can't seem to find it. Can anyone help me out?
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:25 AM   #2
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=9587
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:59 AM   #3
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It would help to know what car you're asking about doing this on.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:33 PM   #4
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Why not both?
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:38 PM   #5
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I like my doubled up bars. Sometimes it can be a little tail happy.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnmachine02 View Post
I like my doubled up bars. Sometimes it can be a little tail happy.
But tail happy is a good thing
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:41 PM   #7
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I had double bars for a while, I liked it
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:46 PM   #8
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Double IPD bars? Do it!!
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:39 PM   #9
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But tail happy is a good thing
Usually, but in snow it can be hairy.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:14 PM   #10
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If you have the budget to get the correct sized swaybar don't monkey around with double bars.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:24 PM   #11
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I didn't know IPD made swaybars for Humpmobiles.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkaplan View Post
If you have the budget to get the correct sized swaybar don't monkey around with double bars.
This.
The IPD 25mm is good, if you need more you can find a 28mm for a 240.
While doubling up the fronts may give you flatter cornering you must remember that flatter isn't always better. Something has to give somewhere, and the tail happy behavior that some consider good really isn't. Properly matching your upgrades, even if you only do one at a time, will give you a car that handles better, safely.
My car is quite tail happy over 50mph when turning, lifting the throttle or braking late. This is due to my autocross setup, and not something I recommend for a daily driver. If you want to go sideways start making more power.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badvlvo View Post
This.
The IPD 25mm is good, if you need more you can find a 28mm for a 240.
While doubling up the fronts may give you flatter cornering you must remember that flatter isn't always better. Something has to give somewhere, and the tail happy behavior that some consider good really isn't. Properly matching your upgrades, even if you only do one at a time, will give you a car that handles better, safely.
My car is quite tail happy over 50mph when turning, lifting the throttle or braking late. This is due to my autocross setup, and not something I recommend for a daily driver. If you want to go sideways start making more power.
That.

If I can find a set of cheap IPD bars I'll hang up my dual sways.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:02 PM   #14
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That.

If I can find a set of cheap IPD bars I'll hang up my dual sways.
I liked my wagon with the 28mm front, stock rear bar. That gave it less understeer but was still stable enough to not be concerned with it switching ends.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:19 PM   #15
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I agree with being safe about it as said above. That being said, it all depends on the rest of ur setup and what you have available.

I really like my double 25mm front/no bar rear with a welded diff.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:20 PM   #16
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Stiffer is not always better as you have read. Wieght transfer I needed for proper cornering. I ran a ITA civic with no front bar and small rear. It was all about settling in to the corner and proper spring and shock valveing. We held three track records for a few years in Hallet and Topeka with it.

It was not a daily driver. And overly stiff cars should not be either.

That being said. Keep the rear soft. As I am just getting into the 240 world. I have no numbers or set ups on them. This year is my set up year. But this time next year. I will have tons of hard data.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badvlvo View Post
Properly matching your upgrades, even if you only do one at a time, will give you a car that handles better, safely.
Quoted for emphasis.

Also keep in mind that swaybars are a fine tuning 'band aid' of sorts. Ideally, with properly rated springs and matched valving dampners for the application in question, we wouldn't need swaybars, or at least a very small one to get that last ~10% out of the suspension.

IPD sways are fantastic for stock springs & dampners, and great with mildly uprated springs (i.e. IPD, B&G, Jamex, etc.) and "off the shelf" sport dampners (i.e. Koni Yellow, Bilstein B8, etc), but still a band aid. Off the shelf solutions are great for ~95% of the masses, mostly because the cars being fitted with these parts are never fully, or properly utilized to their potential. For a DD, IPD suspension bits really transform a stock Volvo into something quite fun. In dedicated motorsports applications, chances are smaller bars are being fitted while custom rate springs and matched dampners are taking the main stage.

Big bars are fun, but they're also [typically solid and thusly] heavy and that added unspring mass mass can have its' own added difficulties with handling prowess. Dual small(er) bars are also heavy, and add more points of failure to the overall setup. Still fun though!

A lot of it also boils down to the driver and their abilities as well. A crappy driver still can't wring the performance out of a car that a good driver can, even when they're both sitting in the same prepped car.


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Old 04-23-2014, 03:28 PM   #18
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^what he said. We sent our spring set up to Koni and had them custom valve the shock to it. They took into effect driver wieght. Corner weighting and even asked about bushings used.

When we ran mid ohio we disconnected the rear sway all together. We picked up a 10th out of it.(then we lost the motor)
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:35 PM   #19
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What are you doing with the car?
What do you want from the car?
What do you have fitted to the car?

It's impossible to give good advice without knowing this.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:11 PM   #20
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OK... So i bought a 76 242 from a drift kid. Welded diff. Cut lowering springs and double front bars. Car is predicatable enougt to drive but corners are weird.... The diff jumping around on its shot ass bushings isnt helping...
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:20 PM   #21
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Bigger front more understeer bigger rear more oversteer...dumb a drift kid did dual sways in the front. At least "match" it with dual rears
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:28 PM   #22
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I TIHNK there is a singel large rear bar. I have been working on getting the LH +T chit done. I already know the car will go aroung in circles really nice. PO also said he spaced the inner tie rods out to get more turinng angle..... YEAH. Im sure ill have a good story once i get under the car....
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blu92in99 View Post
Quoted for emphasis.

Also keep in mind that swaybars are a fine tuning 'band aid' of sorts. Ideally, with properly rated springs and matched valving dampners for the application in question, we wouldn't need swaybars, or at least a very small one to get that last ~3-4% out of the suspension.

. In dedicated motorsports applications, chances are smaller bars are being fitted while custom rate springs and matched dampners are taking the main stage.

.
Yep, one day, some day the boys will realise that good dampers are the key to happiness and that even "pretty damn stiff" springs aren't bad---if the damper controls them.. And compression damping is part of controlling how the car reacts...

I've always believed that sway bars are there so OEMs can fit lame soft junk springs and dampers and yet have something o mitigate against the car wanting to fall over..to feel somewhat "flatter" in the corner.

But the real work is done in the spring and especially the damper..
and that's why its absurd just pitching at a car some shock or strut just because it might fit....its what's inside that counts..
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